Learning Ostomy

Question:

samonee…@aol.com (SamOneElse) wrote: >According to my gastro, Bean-o does its work in the >colon; if you don’t have a colon, Bean-o isn’t very useful.

I’m not at all sure about that.  I have an ileostomy and have noticed a huge difference in the amount of gas produced when I eat beans since I started using Beano.     PaulR

Response:

So someone tell me what does alleviate gas?  Better yet, tell me a way to prevent it from forming in the first place.  My husband (ileostomate) has a terrible time with gas a couple hours after going to bed at night.  It is nothing for him (and me) to be awake for 1 to 2 hours through the  night while he attempts to expel gas by way of belching it up.         (  it never seems to come out into the pouch much )   If this doesn’t occur at 2 or 3 AM,  it happens upon arising at 5:30 AM,  and don’t think for a minute that  trapped gas isn’t  painful for  him, too!  It causes him A LOT of discomfort!  Any suggestions would be appreciated!  

Response:

In article <1998052912260800.IAA14…@ladder03.news.aol.com>, paul…@aol.com (PaulR95) wrote: >I’m not at all sure about that.  I have an ileostomy and have noticed a huge >difference in the amount of gas produced when I eat beans since I started using >Beano.    

I can’t say where this is from, but the Beano company did tests on their products and found it to be useless. Of course, they won’t tell anyone this. — Maurice Volaski, Flux Software         supp…@fluxsoft.com http://www.fluxsoft.com/     ftp://ftp.fluxsoft.com

Response:

On 28-May-98 02:48:00, Tony & David wrote: > Because the drug also works in the intestines. > David

Yes, but it just pops the bubbles, it does not get rid of the gas. So it still ends up in your bag. It in no way reduces the amount of gas. Patrick Sheffield

Response:

One possible enhancement:  According to my gastro, Bean-o does its work in the colon; if you don’t have a colon, Bean-o isn’t very useful. Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -supp…@fluxsoft.com (Maurice Volaski) wrote: >In article <1253.452T769T1904…@earthlink.net>, "Patrick Sheffield" ><psheffi…@earthlink.net> wrote: >>I have posted this before, but I still don’t see how gas-x or any other >>simethicone product can lower the amount of gas in the gut. >>As near as I can tell, there are 3 ways for gas to get in the intestine (and >>thus into a pouch). One: Swallowed air, Two: Reaction in the stomach (this >>could include soda pop), Three: fermentation of undigested complex sugars in >>the intestine (large or small). Of these 3, one and two /might/ be aided by >>simethicone in that it could break down the bubbles in the stomach and allow >>the gas to be expelled orally (burp!). The third cause can sometimes be >aided >>by adding enzymes that help to digest the sugars before they can ferment >>(Lactaid and Beano are two examples). >>However, I cannot see how simethicone could help gas after it leaves the >>stomach. Anyone got an explanation? >The statements made above are precise and accurate!

Response:

Because the drug also works in the intestines. David

Response:

If it works it never did for me or my husband! Bought a package and never used it after the first two times. Nothing happened! Everything was as before. Of course I don’t worry about gas now. I needed Gas-x when gas in my large intestine was so painful it brought tears to my eyes. What worked for me was ripping that sucker out! Now no more pain Susan R. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony & David wrote in message <6kjfcr$…@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>… >Because the drug also works in the intestines. >David

Response:

In article <1253.452T769T1904…@earthlink.net>, "Patrick Sheffield" <psheffi…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I have posted this before, but I still don’t see how gas-x or any other >simethicone product can lower the amount of gas in the gut. >As near as I can tell, there are 3 ways for gas to get in the intestine (and >thus into a pouch). One: Swallowed air, Two: Reaction in the stomach (this >could include soda pop), Three: fermentation of undigested complex sugars in >the intestine (large or small). Of these 3, one and two /might/ be aided by >simethicone in that it could break down the bubbles in the stomach and allow >the gas to be expelled orally (burp!). The third cause can sometimes be aided >by adding enzymes that help to digest the sugars before they can ferment >(Lactaid and Beano are two examples). >However, I cannot see how simethicone could help gas after it leaves the >stomach. Anyone got an explanation?

The statements made above are precise and accurate! — Maurice Volaski, Flux Software         supp…@fluxsoft.com http://www.fluxsoft.com/     ftp://ftp.fluxsoft.com

Response:

On 27-May-98 08:08:22, Council of Govt’s wrote: > I have also experienced that.  Something that may help is taking a gas > reducer, the best thing to use is Simethicone 80mg, it comes in some > name brands like Gas-X I think, but I have the pharmacy generic and it > works fine.  Of course, another answer would be to lower the gas > producing foods you eat, particularly at the end of the day. > Good luck! > Katie

I have posted this before, but I still don’t see how gas-x or any other simethicone product can lower the amount of gas in the gut. As near as I can tell, there are 3 ways for gas to get in the intestine (and thus into a pouch). One: Swallowed air, Two: Reaction in the stomach (this could include soda pop), Three: fermentation of undigested complex sugars in the intestine (large or small). Of these 3, one and two /might/ be aided by simethicone in that it could break down the bubbles in the stomach and allow the gas to be expelled orally (burp!). The third cause can sometimes be aided by adding enzymes that help to digest the sugars before they can ferment (Lactaid and Beano are two examples). However, I cannot see how simethicone could help gas after it leaves the stomach. Anyone got an explanation? Patrick Sheffield

Response:

I have also experienced that.  Something that may help is taking a gas reducer, the best thing to use is Simethicone 80mg, it comes in some name brands like Gas-X I think, but I have the pharmacy generic and it works fine.  Of course, another answer would be to lower the gas producing foods you eat, particularly at the end of the day. Good luck! Katie

Response:

Phazyme or gas-x reduced some gas problems around this house.

Response:

Right, Gas-X and Phasyme are great products!  But, I find for me that watching my food intake is essential.  Tomatoes in ANY form are hell with me as are Broccoli, cabbage, beans, soda, beer and not eating for hours at a time.  Since I watch my food my gas has subsided when before it could have woke the dead!!!  Most embarrassing especially in elevators, etc.

Response:

Hi Ken, I had a similar problem, too.  At night the gas buildup would be so bad the seal would break, I’d have an early morning shower, my husband would be rousted from bed and the linens changed.  Once I got good and sick of that (the first time!), I called Hollister, which I was using at the time, and ordered the filter pouch.  I didn’t like it because it left a fecal mess on whatever clothing or linen touched it.  Then I ordered the 16" pouch and every night changed from the 10" to the 16" and reversed the procedure in the morning.  It was time consuming, but the additional space in the longer nightime pouch stopped the leaking problem. After a few months of washing pouches twice a day, I called Convatec, explained the problem and they sent me samples of their high output drainage pouch. While the pictures don’t show it, the pouch has a filter that works very well. If I eat gassy foods, well then, I have a gassy mess…but that’s my choosing. There is one other thing about these pouches. They are really made for those ostomates who have a liquid output, so there are times removing all the waste can be difficult.  (I have an ileostomy.)  I solved that by rinsing the pouch (while still on me) with about 9 oz of warm water, swishing it around to get rid of the matter and then draining it.  The pouch also comes with a drain at the bottom.  I cut that off and use the pouch as the type you can fold back…Yes, it also comes with a clip, so you have a choice.  I change the pouch every 5 days. Hope this is of some help. Tale care, Ann

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><HTML><PRE>Subject: HOW do you change? >From: "Patrick Sheffield" <psheffi…@earthlink.net> >Date: Tue, May 19, 1998 04:23 EDT >Message-id: <3619.443T2098T234…@earthlink.net>

Patrick, you mention the paste you use has alcohol and stings.  Have you tried Ilex paste, no alcohol, no sting?  It’s made by Convatec. Larry

Response:

I had a leaking problem because of an ulcerated area beside my stoma after my surgery. I used DuoDerm extra thin CGF dressing over it to promote healing.  It took a while to heal and the best I could get for a while was 3-4 days from a flange but when it leaked at least there was a bit of protection there and the DuoDerm helped speed up the healing process. "B" So any liquid produced after the leak will contact my skin and cause irritation around the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->stoma. Then, because of the swelling, the new bags will not seal properly and >they leak in the same spot. It’s a catch 22 situation. The irritated area won’t >heal unless the leak stops; but the leak won’t stop unless  the irritated area >heals. AAARRGGHH!!!

Response:

In article <1998051904332300.AAA08…@ladder03.news.aol.com>,   khalp…@aol.com (Khalph32) wrote: > Howdy y’all. >      I have a problem and it’s driving me crazy. Sometimes when I sleep, gas > fills my bag and causes a break in the seal around my stoma. So any liquid > produced after the leak will contact my skin and cause irritation around the > stoma. Then, because of the swelling, the new bags will not seal properly > and they leak in the same spot. n H.

Your first statement may be the key to your solution (and to many others’, as well.)  The problem seems to be that many ostomates ingest food or drink that causes gas.  At night something as "harmless" as a peppermint will cause a major inflation.  The pressure of the gas can be significant and will indeed cause a leakage under the flange.  Investigate (keep a journal)your intake and try to determine what foods/drinks you can easily eliminate or substitute for greater comfort and security. L —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Response:

Ken, talk to your ET.  I had the same problem and it was solved with the use of Eakin Seals.  They sure aren’t cheap, but you can get a sample to try. Yvonne —-<<–<@ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Khalph32 wrote: > Howdy y’all. >      I have a problem and it’s driving me crazy. Sometimes when I sleep, gas > fills my bag and causes a break in the seal around my stoma. So any liquid > produced after the leak will contact my skin and cause irritation around the > stoma. Then, because of the swelling, the new bags will not seal properly and > they leak in the same spot. It’s a catch 22 situation. The irritated area won’t > heal unless the leak stops; but the leak won’t stop unless  the irritated area > heals. AAARRGGHH!!! > I have tried many different seals from Convetek and Hollister. I do not eat > after 7 pm. I have used tincture of Benzoine and other tacky liquids and creams > recommended by pharmacists. But still it happens. Mind you, this doesn’t happen > all the time, but just often enough to bug the crap out of me.(no pun > intended). > I’m on a fixed income also and I can’t afford to go through 15 to 20 bags a day > Right now I’m on day 4 of another round of this problem and I’m on the verge of > calling my doctor and asking for my intestines back.  Any suggestions or > helpful hints?  Ouch!!!   Ken H.

Response:

You might want to try Ekin seals.  They are expensive ($70 for 20 of them) but they do help in sealing the area.  The are little clay rings that fit around the stoma and then the wafer sits on the seal.  Press real hard when placing the wafer on. Also do not move the ekin seal after you put it on or it will not work.  You can place some cream or powder under the seal to help heal the irritated area. Hope this will help you, and good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Khalph32 wrote: > Howdy y’all. >      I have a problem and it’s driving me crazy. Sometimes when I sleep, gas > fills my bag and causes a break in the seal around my stoma. So any liquid > produced after the leak will contact my skin and cause irritation around the > stoma. Then, because of the swelling, the new bags will not seal properly and > they leak in the same spot. It’s a catch 22 situation. The irritated area won’t > heal unless the leak stops; but the leak won’t stop unless  the irritated area > heals. AAARRGGHH!!! > I have tried many different seals from Convetek and Hollister. I do not eat > after 7 pm. I have used tincture of Benzoine and other tacky liquids and creams > recommended by pharmacists. But still it happens. Mind you, this doesn’t happen > all the time, but just often enough to bug the crap out of me.(no pun > intended). > I’m on a fixed income also and I can’t afford to go through 15 to 20 bags a day > Right now I’m on day 4 of another round of this problem and I’m on the verge of > calling my doctor and asking for my intestines back.  Any suggestions or > helpful hints?  Ouch!!!   Ken H.

Response:

On 19 May 1998 04:33:23 GMT, khalp…@aol.com (Khalph32) wrote: >Howdy y’all. >     I have a problem and it’s driving me crazy. Sometimes when I sleep, gas >fills my bag and causes a break in the seal around my stoma. So any liquid >produced after the leak will contact my skin and cause irritation around the >stoma. Then, because of the swelling, the new bags will not seal properly and >they leak in the same spot. It’s a catch 22 situation. The irritated area won’t >heal unless the leak stops; but the leak won’t stop unless  the irritated area >heals. AAARRGGHH!!!

  Ken H. ************* Do you wear a belt with your appliance ? I use a belt with mine and I use one that is a lttle tighter at night. Then I put on the regular one during the daytime. (not tight) Denny.

Response:

I don’t use a belt, but I think that’s a great idea for poster having problem.  I found that powders applied lightly, either Stomahesive or Hollister Premium powder are good at healing excoriated skin.  Showering and then letting skin dry well is good– I think the airing is good for skin generally.  Some posts in the past have raved out Eakins seals, so maybe you can try these.  Do you need convex flange?  Check with your ET, and if they can’t help, find another one.  Good luck.  Stan.

Response:

On 19 May 1998 15:43:49 GMT, sta…@aol.com (StanHS) wrote: >I don’t use a belt, but I think that’s a great idea for poster having problem. > I found that powders applied lightly, either Stomahesive or Hollister Premium >powder are good at healing excoriated skin.  Showering and then letting skin >dry well is good– I think the airing is good for skin generally.  Some posts >in the past have raved out Eakins seals, so maybe you can try these.  Do you >need convex flange?  Check with your ET, and if they can’t help, find another >one.  Good luck.  Stan.

********** Hi Stan,  Well I use an appliance you have most likely never heard of or seen.  It is made by Robinson Surgical here in Tacoma,WA. usa. It is a convex type and is used with a belt.  it is made of plastic and uses a bag attached with rubber bands. I only use Derma-guard or parthenon K-gum power to seal it. I just got into the habit of using a tighter belt at night so it won’t slip or leak. The Eakin seals are far too expensive to use. My appliance is taken off to empty it several times a day. then just a spray of powder and put it back on. I have used this system for 37 years. I have sent for samples of other stuff on the market and it’s all still here in boxes. I have never seen such distressing looking large stuff in all the years I have had my ostomy. I don’t know how anyone can use that stuff. It is no different than it was 37 years ago, large bulky junk. Denny.

Response:

I have an ileostomy and I normally cut out the wafer and bag before my shower and stick it all together (I use a one piece convatec bag with stomahesive), grab a couple of tissues and then into the bathroom.  Peel the used bag and wafer off and dispose of it in a plastic bag, hop into the shower and let the water cleanse the area around my stoma.  Once I’ve finished in the shower, I hop out, stick a piece of tissue around Harriet in case she decides to erupt, dry the area around the stoma with a towel and then pop the new bag on and away I go! All in all, the change takes about 5 minutes once a week. I’ve been doing it this way for 21 years now and (I realise that I am lucky in this) have never had to use a skin prep, which of course would probably make change time a little longer. Shaz

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Response:

On 18-May-98 21:09:53, Jun2087 wrote: [snip] > You mentioned you had tried many liquids and creams.  I had some problems with > this type of leaking at first and it cause some skin irritation.  Now, before > apply the wafer I "crust" the skin.  My ET nurse explained this to me.  It is > process of layering skin barrier (I use Smith & Nephew) and Convatec > stomahesive powder.  I put on the barrier, then powder…dry with a blow dryer > on cool…and repeat, sometimes 3 times.  It makes a scablike covering over th > irritated skin. > Another thing I changed in my application process was discontinuing the use of > paste.  I left the hospital after surgery thinking you HAD to use paste to > apply the wafer.  After reading tips on this newsgroup I tried discontinuing i > and now I get 5-7 days wear.  I was getting 3 or 4 at the most..

[snip] This prompted me to bring up a question I’ve had for some time. What rituals or procedures do you go thru when applying an appliance? When I change my son’s (we use a Convatec Stomadhesive 2 piece – Little Ones wafer along with a Natura Sur-fit adult small pouch), I have him lay on his bed (It’s a high one), remove the bag, take off the clip, fold the bag over and slip it into a ziploc bag. I pull up the white adhesive square all around the wafer, then, holding the wafer, I pull his skin away from it. When it has worked loose, I slowly pull the wafer off and slip it into the same ziploc bag. Usually, some breakdown of the seal has occured near the stoma, so I wipe the loose poop (he’s got a colostomy) off with tp and place that in that ziploc. I use a adhesive removal towlette to take off all traces of the old adhesive, then take a warm wash cloth and place it over the stoma and surrounding area and let it sit for a while. Usually during this time, I’ll trace out the pattern on his new wafer and cut it out using curved nail scissors. Reilly has a loop stoma that is oval and mushroom like. Also, I have found that the wafer holds better if I put it on with the white adhesive square in a diamond shape as opposed to square on his belly. After the washcloth has sat for a minute or so I gently clean the stoma of any sticky poop and clean, dry, and inspect the surrounding skin. If the seal breakdown has caused some irritation, I’ll "crust" the skin there as mentioned above. If it looks okay, I’ll just check to see how the barrier is holding up. If it seems to have worn off, I’ll re-apply, but I don’t do it unless it’s necessary as Reilly says it stings. We also use Smith & Nephew. When I apply it, I usually let it dry and dab it on a second time for some thickness. While the barrier prep is drying, I’ll apply a /very/ thin layer of paste to the inner bit of wafer right around the stomal hole. I’ve tried it with more and without, and it seems to hold up better with a very small amount. I use it strictly as "caulking" to seal up against the stoma. I don’t use it as any kind of adhesive. I let the paste get a little tacky because the alcohol in it also can sting. Then I take off the paper backing and slide the wafer over the stoma press it firmly onto his abdomen, and hold it for about 30 seconds. Then I’ll apply the bag, put the old clip onto it and ‘Viola we’re done. This takes about 10-15 minutes (as opposed to 2 hours the first time I tried – Reilly is only 4 and it was very difficult for him at first). Following this procedure usually gives me about 5-8 days of use. We have to empty the bag from 1 to 3 times a day. We cuff but don’t rinse. What about everyone else. How do /you/ do it? Thanks, Patrick Sheffield

Response:

Ken, First thing….have you spoken to an ET (enterstomal therapist) nurse about the problem?  They are usually very prepared and helpful in any problem situation. You mentioned you had tried many liquids and creams.  I had some problems with this type of leaking at first and it cause some skin irritation.  Now, before I apply the wafer I "crust" the skin.  My ET nurse explained this to me.  It is a process of layering skin barrier (I use Smith & Nephew) and Convatec stomahesive powder.  I put on the barrier, then powder…dry with a blow dryer on cool…and repeat, sometimes 3 times.  It makes a scablike covering over the irritated skin.   Another thing I changed in my application process was discontinuing the use of paste.  I left the hospital after surgery thinking you HAD to use paste to apply the wafer.  After reading tips on this newsgroup I tried discontinuing it and now I get 5-7 days wear.  I was getting 3 or 4 at the most.. Finally….maybe you could try to pinpoint what is causing the gas.  You said it is not an everyday occurance so maybe if you figure out the culprit, you could cut out the gas.  I am sure you have heard about the major gas producers…onions, cabbage, and the like do me in! Please remember that what works for me might now work for you, but hang in there. Best of luck, TR "Two whole fried chickens and a coke ma’am."….."and some dry white toast." Jake and Elwood – The Blues Brothers

Response:

Howdy y’all.      I have a problem and it’s driving me crazy. Sometimes when I sleep, gas fills my bag and causes a break in the seal around my stoma. So any liquid produced after the leak will contact my skin and cause irritation around the stoma. Then, because of the swelling, the new bags will not seal properly and they leak in the same spot. It’s a catch 22 situation. The irritated area won’t heal unless the leak stops; but the leak won’t stop unless  the irritated area heals. AAARRGGHH!!! I have tried many different seals from Convetek and Hollister. I do not eat after 7 pm. I have used tincture of Benzoine and other tacky liquids and creams recommended by pharmacists. But still it happens. Mind you, this doesn’t happen all the time, but just often enough to bug the crap out of me.(no pun intended). I’m on a fixed income also and I can’t afford to go through 15 to 20 bags a day Right now I’m on day 4 of another round of this problem and I’m on the verge of calling my doctor and asking for my intestines back.  Any suggestions or helpful hints?  Ouch!!!   Ken H.

Response: